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Phyllis Griffin interview transcript, December 21, 2004

10

the front lines. Because their young, you know? And the young believe "we believe we can do it. We can do it on our own." Which she knew was not the wisest thing. 

NL: (Laughs) Do you think that, when she worked with them behind the scenes, she would have tried to persuade them towards more non-violent means, or would have just offered, um, more encouragement?

PG: Definitely. Oh, definitely. I think she was encouraging non-violence. Which. I think, you know, in terms of the Black Panther Party, and um, it was hard for the Black Panthers in Des Moinees to really listen to that, you know, why should we not protect ourselves, why, you know, we have a right to guns, you know, the whole romance of it. Um, I think it was very difficult for them to hear her on that issue. It wasn't about the guns.. there's more important stuff that needed to be attended to. One of them has to do with opening up a book and reading ones history. 

NL: Um, there's the Black Nationalism movement, and there's the, shortly following that would have been the Women's movement. Um, were you or she, well could you describe any involvement you or your mother had with the women's movement?

PG: Well I think at that tie my mother was really encouraging me as a woman to, as a Black women, to keep moving forward. because I too was discouraged about being in theater, wanting to be a director, wanting to act. I read a lot of feminist material, much of which was in her library. My mother worked with women on, um, the work front, the housing front, I think that covers much of what she was. She spoke to young women about fulfilling their dreams, sometimes right at our kitchen table, sometimes at formal gatherings. 

NL: If we can return, a little bit, to talk more specifically about the movement against Katz, and I, I realize that most of what you know about that would have been through stories since it may have been difficult to recollect, yourself, being only one year old at the time it happened. But do you remember if your mother or anyone in the family was harassed by members of the community specifically for her efforts against the Katz Drug Store? 

PG: It was too young for me to remember, And by the time I was aware o what was happening, a lot o people were very proud of her. Some people were afraid of her, because of the labeling. 

NL: Those who were afraid would have been other members of the black community?

PG: Mm hmm. It wasn't until she started to become strongly acknowledged by, um, powerful people in the white community that the black community relaxed a bit. 

NL: Do you know why, again you may not, but, do you know why Katz Drug Store specifically was chosen, um, and were there other restaurants that were openly discriminatory at that time?

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10 the front lines. Because their young, you know? And the young believe "we believe we can do it. We can do it on our own." Which she knew was not the wisest thing. NL: (Laughs) Do you think that, when she worked with them behind the scenes, she would have tried to persuade them towards more non-violent means, or would have just offered, um, more encouragement? PG: Definitely. Oh, definitely. I think she was encouraging non-violence. Which. I think, you know, in terms of the Black Panther Party, and um, it was hard for the Black Panthers in Des Moinees to really listen to that, you know, why should we not protect ourselves, why, you know, we have a right to guns, you know, the whole romance of it. Um, I think it was very difficult for them to hear her on that issue. It wasn't about the guns.. there's more important stuff that needed to be attended to. One of them has to do with opening up a book and reading ones history. NL: Um, there's the Black Nationalism movement, and there's the, shortly following that would have been the Women's movement. Um, were you or she, well could you describe any involvement you or your mother had with the women's movement? PG: Well I think at that tie my mother was really encouraging me as a woman to, as a Black women, to keep moving forward. because I too was discouraged about being in theater, wanting to be a director, wanting to act. I read a lot of feminist material, much of which was in her library. My mother worked with women on, um, the work front, the housing front, I think that covers much of what she was. She spoke to young women about fulfilling their dreams, sometimes right at our kitchen table, sometimes at formal gatherings. NL: If we can return, a little bit, to talk more specifically about the movement against Katz, and I, I realize that most of what you know about that would have been through stories since it may have been difficult to recollect, yourself, being only one year old at the time it happened. But do you remember if your mother or anyone in the family was harassed by members of the community specifically for her efforts against the Katz Drug Store? PG: It was too young for me to remember, And by the time I was aware o what was happening, a lot o people were very proud of her. Some people were afraid of her, because of the labeling. NL: Those who were afraid would have been other members of the black community? PG: Mm hmm. It wasn't until she started to become strongly acknowledged by, um, powerful people in the white community that the black community relaxed a bit. NL: Do you know why, again you may not, but, do you know why Katz Drug Store specifically was chosen, um, and were there other restaurants that were openly discriminatory at that time?