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Phyllis Griffin interview transcript, December 21, 2004

17

PG: Well, my mother was ready, and several other, and John Bibbs was ready, and several other people both black and white were ready, but it wasn't a large enough movement, nor was there resistance enough against that, do you know what I mean?

NL: Uh huh

PG: Um, like there weren't counter pickets, to my knowledge. There wasn't violence perpetrated upon the people who were sitting at the counter, physical violence. Um, so it was settled through the courts, which I think is the way things do need to happen. But because of the violence that was perpetrated upon the people that were sitting in the south, that really began to get national notoriety, and that, it just exploded from there. 

N: It also occurs to me that it would have gotten a lot more television attention

PG: Yes it would have 

NL:...TV would have taken off as a form of technology. 

PG:... It was more prevalent. Yes. I think television had a big part of it. 

NL: Now, but the sit-in was, if I, my research is correct, one of the methods used to protest against Katz. That they would go in sit for, for a couple hours, waiting for service. 

PG: Right at the noon hour. 

NL: Right. 

PG: Right at the noon hour. Right at the peak of, right at the peak of where they were going to be earning their money.

NL: And, and that's what initially drew me to this case, because it , it sort of draws some continuity between,um, some of the sit-ins that James Farmer and CORE led in Chicago in the early 40s, and the Greensboro Movement in the 1960s , in 1960

PG: Mm hmm.

NL:... to see that same technique was being used in the late forties was very curious, um, for me. So, do you know how your mother came up with the idea of sitting-in as a method of protest. 

PG: Well she was here in Chicago. I think she was here in Chicago for alittle while...maybe a year? And I, I believe that she might have learned it at that point. And she might have also learned about it in regards to just reading about it. Certainly she was, she protested in New York City, and was even arrested in New York City when she was.

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17 PG: Well, my mother was ready, and several other, and John Bibbs was ready, and several other people both black and white were ready, but it wasn't a large enough movement, nor was there resistance enough against that, do you know what I mean? NL: Uh huh PG: Um, like there weren't counter pickets, to my knowledge. There wasn't violence perpetrated upon the people who were sitting at the counter, physical violence. Um, so it was settled through the courts, which I think is the way things do need to happen. But because of the violence that was perpetrated upon the people that were sitting in the south, that really began to get national notoriety, and that, it just exploded from there. N: It also occurs to me that it would have gotten a lot more television attention PG: Yes it would have NL:...TV would have taken off as a form of technology. PG:... It was more prevalent. Yes. I think television had a big part of it. NL: Now, but the sit-in was, if I, my research is correct, one of the methods used to protest against Katz. That they would go in sit for, for a couple hours, waiting for service. PG: Right at the noon hour. NL: Right. PG: Right at the noon hour. Right at the peak of, right at the peak of where they were going to be earning their money. NL: And, and that's what initially drew me to this case, because it , it sort of draws some continuity between,um, some of the sit-ins that James Farmer and CORE led in Chicago in the early 40s, and the Greensboro Movement in the 1960s , in 1960 PG: Mm hmm. NL:... to see that same technique was being used in the late forties was very curious, um, for me. So, do you know how your mother came up with the idea of sitting-in as a method of protest. PG: Well she was here in Chicago. I think she was here in Chicago for alittle while...maybe a year? And I, I believe that she might have learned it at that point. And she might have also learned about it in regards to just reading about it. Certainly she was, she protested in New York City, and was even arrested in New York City when she was.