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Phyllis Griffin interview transcript, December 21, 2004

18

demonstrating with the teachers union against low wages, I guess. She and Zero were arrested along with several others. 

NL: (laughs) Well, this may be rephrasing a question in a different way, but I'll ask anyways. The sit-in movement became much more common method later in the Civil Rights movement.. probably would not have been widely known, um, in 1948, so, uh, did the Des Moines folks come up with this idea independently, or learn it from somewhere else, and would it have been your mother who came up with the idea, or?

PG: I think my mom, I think my mom came up with the idea. You know, the Progressives she was interacting with, I think, you know, they're not dumb people. My mother had experienced resistance, political resistance, in New York City. I'm sure she was aware of what was happening in Chicago. Um, my mother sat in the segregated part of the cafeteria in Washington D.C. out of plain, flat out stubbornness, all by herself. And when the colored, quote attendants of the cafeteria came over to her and told her very quietly "you're sitting in the wrong place" she said, "I know" and they said "you might be arrested," And she said, "Let them come and arrest me."

NL: When was this at?

PG: This was... I don't know, this was a story she told me. She was in Washington D.C. and she sat on the wrong side, intentionally. 

NL: Well, that, uh, that, uh, calls attention to the fact that, um, she's often referred to now as the "Rosa Parks of Iowa" had been her title. Do you think this an appropriate title? Why or why not? And would she think this was an appropriate title, why or why not?

PG: Well, I think she would think it is an appropriate title to represent Rosa Parks of Iowa. Um, and, you know, as her daughter, you know, it's to me its, like, well she, she was the one who sat down first, so she deserves her own title, you know, she was the Edna Griffin of Iowa. But Rosa Parks describes an action, and so, on that level, so that people can recognize the action, and then later get her name, um, I guess its appropriate. 

NL: Have you or she ever met Ms. Parks?

PG: No, I've never met Rosa Parks. Met her in my heart. Met her in literature. 

NL: Right

PG: Met her on the stage.

NL: 1948, according to some scholars, would have predated the Civil Rights movement. Did Edna see her action against Katz as an isolated incident, or do you think she saw it as part of a larger movement?

Saving...

18 demonstrating with the teachers union against low wages, I guess. She and Zero were arrested along with several others. NL: (laughs) Well, this may be rephrasing a question in a different way, but I'll ask anyways. The sit-in movement became much more common method later in the Civil Rights movement.. probably would not have been widely known, um, in 1948, so, uh, did the Des Moines folks come up with this idea independently, or learn it from somewhere else, and would it have been your mother who came up with the idea, or? PG: I think my mom, I think my mom came up with the idea. You know, the Progressives she was interacting with, I think, you know, they're not dumb people. My mother had experienced resistance, political resistance, in New York City. I'm sure she was aware of what was happening in Chicago. Um, my mother sat in the segregated part of the cafeteria in Washington D.C. out of plain, flat out stubbornness, all by herself. And when the colored, quote attendants of the cafeteria came over to her and told her very quietly "you're sitting in the wrong place" she said, "I know" and they said "you might be arrested," And she said, "Let them come and arrest me." NL: When was this at? PG: This was... I don't know, this was a story she told me. She was in Washington D.C. and she sat on the wrong side, intentionally. NL: Well, that, uh, that, uh, calls attention to the fact that, um, she's often referred to now as the "Rosa Parks of Iowa" had been her title. Do you think this an appropriate title? Why or why not? And would she think this was an appropriate title, why or why not? PG: Well, I think she would think it is an appropriate title to represent Rosa Parks of Iowa. Um, and, you know, as her daughter, you know, it's to me its, like, well she, she was the one who sat down first, so she deserves her own title, you know, she was the Edna Griffin of Iowa. But Rosa Parks describes an action, and so, on that level, so that people can recognize the action, and then later get her name, um, I guess its appropriate. NL: Have you or she ever met Ms. Parks? PG: No, I've never met Rosa Parks. Met her in my heart. Met her in literature. NL: Right PG: Met her on the stage. NL: 1948, according to some scholars, would have predated the Civil Rights movement. Did Edna see her action against Katz as an isolated incident, or do you think she saw it as part of a larger movement?