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Phyllis Griffin interview transcript, December 21, 2004

21

NL: Well, I would agree. I think that this is coming from the same defense that tried to argue that, uh Katz was quote, "not equipped to serve negroes" and, um, I guess the attorney for the defense also claimed that "the entire incident was created by Henry Wallace's Progressive Party to stir up a racial issue," So...

PG: Well, OK, if my mother knew in advance that she was going to be discriminated against  at Katz by taking me down there to get ice cream, my response would to that is, "Oh well" Because the discrimination was happening. Whether she knew about it before hand or she came across it by accident, my response is that is its six of one, half a dozen of another. What's the difference? My mother was an intelligent woman, an incredibly intelligent woman. It doesn't surprise me that she wouldn't know in advance. It doesn't surprise me that she wouldn't strategize on how to resolve that problem, that injustice. Which I think she did it very creatively, and she did it non-violently. What more could society ask for?

NL: Incidentally, he lawyer, Charles P. Howard, said it was the most important lawsuit he had ever tried up to that point. And, uh, do you know anything about him or your mother's relationship about him?

PG: No...no.

NL: I've actually, uh, done some research into him, um, and he's proved to be a very intriguing figure. Very, very active and, I think one of the leading members of the NAACP in Iowa, and gave the keynote address for Henry Wallace, um, at, at a major function, so, he was sort of a celebrated lawyer at the time he took the case. 

PG: Yeah! I really look forward to reading your thesis. I hope you'll let me read it. 

NL: Oh! Yeah definitely. You'll be the first one to get a copy. Um, and I have all sorts of new ideas about where to go for new documents, but I guess my final question is, is there any pictures or documents relating to Edna that you have around the house which I could maybe take a look at?

PG: I ... I don't have them here. They're with my brother and my sister.

NL: OK

PG: OK? I'm raising two kids, so when it came time to take care of the photographs, it's my sister who has the bulk of them, in California. And I think that she would be more than happy, um, to send you copies of some of it. 

NL: That'd be wonderful

PG: Yeah. And she has, I think, some wonderful pictures. 

NL: And do you have her address?

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21 NL: Well, I would agree. I think that this is coming from the same defense that tried to argue that, uh Katz was quote, "not equipped to serve negroes" and, um, I guess the attorney for the defense also claimed that "the entire incident was created by Henry Wallace's Progressive Party to stir up a racial issue," So... PG: Well, OK, if my mother knew in advance that she was going to be discriminated against at Katz by taking me down there to get ice cream, my response would to that is, "Oh well" Because the discrimination was happening. Whether she knew about it before hand or she came across it by accident, my response is that is its six of one, half a dozen of another. What's the difference? My mother was an intelligent woman, an incredibly intelligent woman. It doesn't surprise me that she wouldn't know in advance. It doesn't surprise me that she wouldn't strategize on how to resolve that problem, that injustice. Which I think she did it very creatively, and she did it non-violently. What more could society ask for? NL: Incidentally, he lawyer, Charles P. Howard, said it was the most important lawsuit he had ever tried up to that point. And, uh, do you know anything about him or your mother's relationship about him? PG: No...no. NL: I've actually, uh, done some research into him, um, and he's proved to be a very intriguing figure. Very, very active and, I think one of the leading members of the NAACP in Iowa, and gave the keynote address for Henry Wallace, um, at, at a major function, so, he was sort of a celebrated lawyer at the time he took the case. PG: Yeah! I really look forward to reading your thesis. I hope you'll let me read it. NL: Oh! Yeah definitely. You'll be the first one to get a copy. Um, and I have all sorts of new ideas about where to go for new documents, but I guess my final question is, is there any pictures or documents relating to Edna that you have around the house which I could maybe take a look at? PG: I ... I don't have them here. They're with my brother and my sister. NL: OK PG: OK? I'm raising two kids, so when it came time to take care of the photographs, it's my sister who has the bulk of them, in California. And I think that she would be more than happy, um, to send you copies of some of it. NL: That'd be wonderful PG: Yeah. And she has, I think, some wonderful pictures. NL: And do you have her address?